*LTD*
Apr 28, 08:12 AM
Right, but how is that not a fad? By definition, it doesn't matter how said fad ends, it simply means that it's overall existence is temporary.
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
You don't get it.
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
You don't get it.
Multimedia
Oct 12, 11:08 AM
You're welcome. You take the plunge? I'm torn between the 30" or two 24" monitors. I'm thinking I may buy one 24" now, then pick up another monitor on Black Friday--hopefully after I've purchased a new Mac Pro.You think Dell will sell them for even less on Black Friday? - November 24 for you unfamiliar with the term.
Yeah I hope Apple decides to pull the trigger on the Clovertown option as soon as they can get product. That would be so cool if they do.
Definitely not 2 x 24" I think. I have the 24" and it's native HD which I use all the time as my primary television set with EyeTV2 and an EyeTV 500 - now EyeTV Hybrid. But I think the idea of having the 30" with the 24" is kind of ultimate - in a stock video card withtout a fan kind of way.
I almost did buy a second 24" in August. Then I decided that I would wait, pay down my Dell credit some more, then get the 30" which is what I'm doing now thanks in part to your coupon deal although I was prepared to pay $1444. The coupon saved me another $104 including tax. Very excited. Should arrive next week sometime.
Another reason to have a 30" is to wed it to a MacBook Pro as the ultimate mobile home base second screen. But I think the next screen I buy will be another 24 for my Mac Pro 8-core so I can leave this one on the Quad G5 that I am not selling. I think the combo of the 24" + 20" is the best budget way to go - total just over $1k. But if you're going to spend more it might as well be a little over $2k for the 24" + 30" I think.
So I'm going to wind up with:
24" + 20" on both the 2GHz Dual Core (got at Fry's for $864.26 in August) and Quad G5s
24" + 30" on the 8-Core Mac Pro.
I like the idea of having a 24" on everything because it is capable of displaying HD in its native resolution - not bigger not smaller.
But if Dell starts selling the 30" for $999 then all bets are off. :D
Having never spent any length of time with a 30", it is probably too soon to tell how much I will want two. My hunch is: a lot. :p
Yeah I hope Apple decides to pull the trigger on the Clovertown option as soon as they can get product. That would be so cool if they do.
Definitely not 2 x 24" I think. I have the 24" and it's native HD which I use all the time as my primary television set with EyeTV2 and an EyeTV 500 - now EyeTV Hybrid. But I think the idea of having the 30" with the 24" is kind of ultimate - in a stock video card withtout a fan kind of way.
I almost did buy a second 24" in August. Then I decided that I would wait, pay down my Dell credit some more, then get the 30" which is what I'm doing now thanks in part to your coupon deal although I was prepared to pay $1444. The coupon saved me another $104 including tax. Very excited. Should arrive next week sometime.
Another reason to have a 30" is to wed it to a MacBook Pro as the ultimate mobile home base second screen. But I think the next screen I buy will be another 24 for my Mac Pro 8-core so I can leave this one on the Quad G5 that I am not selling. I think the combo of the 24" + 20" is the best budget way to go - total just over $1k. But if you're going to spend more it might as well be a little over $2k for the 24" + 30" I think.
So I'm going to wind up with:
24" + 20" on both the 2GHz Dual Core (got at Fry's for $864.26 in August) and Quad G5s
24" + 30" on the 8-Core Mac Pro.
I like the idea of having a 24" on everything because it is capable of displaying HD in its native resolution - not bigger not smaller.
But if Dell starts selling the 30" for $999 then all bets are off. :D
Having never spent any length of time with a 30", it is probably too soon to tell how much I will want two. My hunch is: a lot. :p
stcanard
Mar 18, 08:41 PM
Apple sells music only to sell iPods. People are locked into their iPods because their iTunes music can't be played on any other brand of player.
And if you look at the number of iPods sold compared to the number of ITMS songs sold, it is plainly obvious this statement is pure bull.
And if you look at the number of iPods sold compared to the number of ITMS songs sold, it is plainly obvious this statement is pure bull.
Apple OC
Mar 12, 02:48 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8008582
Nice to see this response coming out of Los Angeles ... apparently they have already left.
Nice to see this response coming out of Los Angeles ... apparently they have already left.
myamid
Sep 12, 07:17 PM
Here's another pic from the event today, taken by the Gizmodo guys...
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701.JPG
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701-thumb.JPG
Looks like a squished Mini :p
http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701.JPG
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701-thumb.JPG
Looks like a squished Mini :p
Apple OC
Mar 11, 01:03 AM
Watching these Tsunami pictures on CNN ... I hope people will be OK.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Edit ... 2:15am watching it Live on CNN ... unbelievable footage
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Edit ... 2:15am watching it Live on CNN ... unbelievable footage
SuperCachetes
Mar 26, 08:05 PM
I didn't say in the street
Examine the benefits of heterosexual marriage, examine why they are given and then compare with homosexual couples
Marriages don't need to be about love, they need to be a permanent commitment.
Fine, you said "in public," but it's irrelevant given the explanation that was, as I said, already furnished. It's not an arbitrary rule based on any morality.
I can examine the benefits of a heterosexual marriage from within one. They have nothing to do with the sex life of my wife and I.
And I don't really know how you got off on the tangent of love and commitment. In either case, these are things that gays are just as capable of as any straight couple.
Nothing other than they are both expected to practice abstinence according to one of our Catholic posters here. I thought that point was pretty clear in my post.
It wasn't clear in the least. Your post:
I'm not condoning the belief but priests are expected to do it, so why not gay people?
...seems to be asking the absurd question, so I guess I'm asking not "why are condoning the belief or not condoning it," but rather "what possible sense could it make from a practical perspective." Being gay and being a priest have absolutely nothing in common.
Examine the benefits of heterosexual marriage, examine why they are given and then compare with homosexual couples
Marriages don't need to be about love, they need to be a permanent commitment.
Fine, you said "in public," but it's irrelevant given the explanation that was, as I said, already furnished. It's not an arbitrary rule based on any morality.
I can examine the benefits of a heterosexual marriage from within one. They have nothing to do with the sex life of my wife and I.
And I don't really know how you got off on the tangent of love and commitment. In either case, these are things that gays are just as capable of as any straight couple.
Nothing other than they are both expected to practice abstinence according to one of our Catholic posters here. I thought that point was pretty clear in my post.
It wasn't clear in the least. Your post:
I'm not condoning the belief but priests are expected to do it, so why not gay people?
...seems to be asking the absurd question, so I guess I'm asking not "why are condoning the belief or not condoning it," but rather "what possible sense could it make from a practical perspective." Being gay and being a priest have absolutely nothing in common.
R.Perez
Mar 11, 06:06 AM
8ft wave passed Midway Island, 6ft wave expected for Oahu. I live plenty high above sea level, and bought groceries so I am ALL GOOD.
R.Perez
Mar 13, 03:46 PM
One word.
Night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night).
One word.
Battery.
Night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night).
One word.
Battery.
UnixMac
Oct 7, 06:54 PM
Sam
I share your very pro-mac attitude, but it IS pro-mac to call a spade a spade. I hate to admit it too, but Wintel is getting faster and faster and we're sitting still.
OS X is an amazing Unix based os that should Scream in every app, and yet Wintel is kicking our buts in 3D graphics which should be a mac relm. Instead of blindliy saying that Mac is best we should self examine and send Apple our opinion via their feedback on their website.
I know that people hate car examples so I will use a totally different one. War history.
Hitler was not only an evil Nazi facist, but he was once a corporal and knew little or nothing about war tactics/strategy. He had some of the greatest generals of the 20th century working for him. Field Marshalls Von Manstein, Von Rundstedt, Rommel & ColonelGeneral Guderian but to name a few. Read up on military history, these were great leaders of fighting men, and Hitler was a politician.
They constantly told him that he was doing things wrong and he just refused to listen, to the point of firing all of them at one time or another for telling him The Truth Now, granted, we are better off that Hitler lost (those Generals themselve were even happy about it) but that proves that you gain nothing by denying the truth.
now back to Apple. Apple is only gonna make machines that are faster than Intel (i.e. G5, G6 etc...) if we DEMAND it. If we are content with 800MHz note books, while IBM makes 2.0GHz and Alienware makes 2.6GHz ones that smoke us, then we are doing ourselves a disservice.
I am a dedicated Apple user, but only because of OS X, until OS X, I was a Windows guy and wanted an Apple, becasue back in 2000, the G4 was the top. I figured that between the G4 and Unix, I was gonna be top. But Apple has stood still (compared to Wintel) and I am starting to get anxious, and so are others.
there, I've said my $.02............can we still be friends?
I share your very pro-mac attitude, but it IS pro-mac to call a spade a spade. I hate to admit it too, but Wintel is getting faster and faster and we're sitting still.
OS X is an amazing Unix based os that should Scream in every app, and yet Wintel is kicking our buts in 3D graphics which should be a mac relm. Instead of blindliy saying that Mac is best we should self examine and send Apple our opinion via their feedback on their website.
I know that people hate car examples so I will use a totally different one. War history.
Hitler was not only an evil Nazi facist, but he was once a corporal and knew little or nothing about war tactics/strategy. He had some of the greatest generals of the 20th century working for him. Field Marshalls Von Manstein, Von Rundstedt, Rommel & ColonelGeneral Guderian but to name a few. Read up on military history, these were great leaders of fighting men, and Hitler was a politician.
They constantly told him that he was doing things wrong and he just refused to listen, to the point of firing all of them at one time or another for telling him The Truth Now, granted, we are better off that Hitler lost (those Generals themselve were even happy about it) but that proves that you gain nothing by denying the truth.
now back to Apple. Apple is only gonna make machines that are faster than Intel (i.e. G5, G6 etc...) if we DEMAND it. If we are content with 800MHz note books, while IBM makes 2.0GHz and Alienware makes 2.6GHz ones that smoke us, then we are doing ourselves a disservice.
I am a dedicated Apple user, but only because of OS X, until OS X, I was a Windows guy and wanted an Apple, becasue back in 2000, the G4 was the top. I figured that between the G4 and Unix, I was gonna be top. But Apple has stood still (compared to Wintel) and I am starting to get anxious, and so are others.
there, I've said my $.02............can we still be friends?
mgamber
Jul 7, 12:47 PM
I've had a good experience with the new phone as well. With the 3G and 3GS, I was never, in two years, able to hold a call longer than 5 minutes before it was dropped. Seriously, not even one. Once I bought cases for the new phone and eliminated the antenna problem, I've held conversations over half an hour and then ended when I ended them, not when they were dropped, and data is at least 50% faster than it had been with previous phones. Same story with my son's new iPhone. I may still buy a repeater because I still get one bar and pitiful data speeds, but at least the phone can finally be used as a phone.
Per AT&T...on pre-order day I went to the local AT&T store to place my order and, as expected, it was complete bedlam. I put my name on the list and waited in line and was eventually called to the counter by "Troy" who took my order for two new phones, writing everything down and swiping the plastic thru the old fashioned imprint thing and everything. He told me that at some point AT&T was going to shut down the online store entirely so they could enter their orders, he'd get them in as soon as he could and sure enough, later that evening I received two emails, one per order entered. He also said that I wouldn't be sorry, the new phones were supposed to have much better reception. Fast forward a bit and I get a text message from Troy telling me that my phones had arrived and I could come in at any time to pick them up. So I go into the AT&T store and, once again, it's total bedlam. As Troy activates my phone, some idiot standing next to me is so mad that he can't just buy an iPhone that he slams his iPad on the counter so hard it breaks. I couldn't help it and laughed out loud and he stormed out. That's what kind of idiocy these people had to put up with. All done, both phones work and then Troy tells me that it was like pulling teeth but he got my 3rd line to be eligible, also. I had broken an iPhone six months ago and got an OOW replacement so it wasn't eligible for an upgrade. Somehow he managed to pull it off and did I want to get a new iPhone for that one, also. You bet! He'll shoot me a text message when it arrives.
About 20 minutes later I realized the phone had a problem with the antenna and needed a case. For some odd reason, a senior moment I guess, I went to the Apple store where I was greeted by two armed police and some girl who had attitude coming off of her like heat off a black sedan in summer. "What do YOU want?" she spat, never looking away from her oh-so-important iPad screen that never changed. I told her I bought a couple new iPhones and needed cases for them. "We don't have any" and that was the end of the "conversation". No suggesting I ask someone who wasn't an a**hole, no suggesting trying AT&T, nothing. So I walked the extra 100 feet to AT&T where a woman who wasn't busy being yelled at led me to a drawer full of cases, let me grab a couple and even open one to make sure I liked the look and so on. Later, when the AT&T surveys came, I made sure to give Troy and that woman the highest scores available.
So it depends on who you deal with. The folks at AT&T couldn't have been more pleasant and the whole thing couldn't have gone easier despite the circus going on around them. And I will never set foot in an Apple store again. They are the definition of needless, bulls**t arrogance. If my Macbook Pro, either Macbook, iMac, iPad or any of the 5 iPhones I own ever need serviced, I'll call and ask them to send a box rather than deal with that mall trash again.
Per AT&T...on pre-order day I went to the local AT&T store to place my order and, as expected, it was complete bedlam. I put my name on the list and waited in line and was eventually called to the counter by "Troy" who took my order for two new phones, writing everything down and swiping the plastic thru the old fashioned imprint thing and everything. He told me that at some point AT&T was going to shut down the online store entirely so they could enter their orders, he'd get them in as soon as he could and sure enough, later that evening I received two emails, one per order entered. He also said that I wouldn't be sorry, the new phones were supposed to have much better reception. Fast forward a bit and I get a text message from Troy telling me that my phones had arrived and I could come in at any time to pick them up. So I go into the AT&T store and, once again, it's total bedlam. As Troy activates my phone, some idiot standing next to me is so mad that he can't just buy an iPhone that he slams his iPad on the counter so hard it breaks. I couldn't help it and laughed out loud and he stormed out. That's what kind of idiocy these people had to put up with. All done, both phones work and then Troy tells me that it was like pulling teeth but he got my 3rd line to be eligible, also. I had broken an iPhone six months ago and got an OOW replacement so it wasn't eligible for an upgrade. Somehow he managed to pull it off and did I want to get a new iPhone for that one, also. You bet! He'll shoot me a text message when it arrives.
About 20 minutes later I realized the phone had a problem with the antenna and needed a case. For some odd reason, a senior moment I guess, I went to the Apple store where I was greeted by two armed police and some girl who had attitude coming off of her like heat off a black sedan in summer. "What do YOU want?" she spat, never looking away from her oh-so-important iPad screen that never changed. I told her I bought a couple new iPhones and needed cases for them. "We don't have any" and that was the end of the "conversation". No suggesting I ask someone who wasn't an a**hole, no suggesting trying AT&T, nothing. So I walked the extra 100 feet to AT&T where a woman who wasn't busy being yelled at led me to a drawer full of cases, let me grab a couple and even open one to make sure I liked the look and so on. Later, when the AT&T surveys came, I made sure to give Troy and that woman the highest scores available.
So it depends on who you deal with. The folks at AT&T couldn't have been more pleasant and the whole thing couldn't have gone easier despite the circus going on around them. And I will never set foot in an Apple store again. They are the definition of needless, bulls**t arrogance. If my Macbook Pro, either Macbook, iMac, iPad or any of the 5 iPhones I own ever need serviced, I'll call and ask them to send a box rather than deal with that mall trash again.
digitalbiker
Sep 12, 04:20 PM
Wouldn't you rather pay for only the shows that you watch?
Movies, maybe.
But if you are going to be charging me for every news, weather, sports, or entertainment program that I watch on a daily basis it is going to have to be a lot, lot, less than paying for satellite / cable and watching what I want.
I think the current price for satellite / cable is reasonable but if a service is going to charge me per show, they would have to charge pennies for it. Otherwise it just wouldn't be competitive price-wise.
Movies, maybe.
But if you are going to be charging me for every news, weather, sports, or entertainment program that I watch on a daily basis it is going to have to be a lot, lot, less than paying for satellite / cable and watching what I want.
I think the current price for satellite / cable is reasonable but if a service is going to charge me per show, they would have to charge pennies for it. Otherwise it just wouldn't be competitive price-wise.
Th3Crow
Apr 28, 10:13 AM
I just think Apple is making a mistake by not making some low end machines.
...They may walk past the small Apple table, see the near �1000 price tag, and think, yeah, right, like we're going to get one of those. I could get two good spec'd windows Laptops for that price.
...As the only REAL difference between a PC and a Mac these days is the OS it's running, there is no reason Apple could not make a laptop directly at the price point of a medium to low end Windows laptop and then, people may buy them, and perhaps get used to OS X and in years to come go for an iMac.
You're completely wrong, Piggie. Anyone who uses Mac hardware knows that. A Macbook Pro is a completely different animal than a piece of crap made by Dell that sells for half the price. Apple doesn't make junk, and never will. I'm glad. I don't care that Joe Cheapo wants the lowest priced garbage he can find, and doesn't care that its hard drive will fail in a year, that its motherboard will fry, it's underpowered, or that his experience will suck and he won't know the difference. Those of us who buy Macs and choose to spend more for a better made machine appreciate the difference. You get what you pay for - remember that.
And people ARE buying them. In droves.
...They may walk past the small Apple table, see the near �1000 price tag, and think, yeah, right, like we're going to get one of those. I could get two good spec'd windows Laptops for that price.
...As the only REAL difference between a PC and a Mac these days is the OS it's running, there is no reason Apple could not make a laptop directly at the price point of a medium to low end Windows laptop and then, people may buy them, and perhaps get used to OS X and in years to come go for an iMac.
You're completely wrong, Piggie. Anyone who uses Mac hardware knows that. A Macbook Pro is a completely different animal than a piece of crap made by Dell that sells for half the price. Apple doesn't make junk, and never will. I'm glad. I don't care that Joe Cheapo wants the lowest priced garbage he can find, and doesn't care that its hard drive will fail in a year, that its motherboard will fry, it's underpowered, or that his experience will suck and he won't know the difference. Those of us who buy Macs and choose to spend more for a better made machine appreciate the difference. You get what you pay for - remember that.
And people ARE buying them. In droves.
kresh
Oct 26, 02:39 AM
Now we see what Apple saw - why the Mac Pro is strickly BTO.
Just add two more processor options for the X5355 and E5345, and this upgrade is done.
Wow, simply amazing. Kudos Apple!
Just add two more processor options for the X5355 and E5345, and this upgrade is done.
Wow, simply amazing. Kudos Apple!
r1ch4rd
Apr 23, 05:09 PM
I know a few, they are surgeons and oncologists.
Just ask their patients. ;)
I'm glad my doctor isn't omniscient... she might not approve! :)
Just ask their patients. ;)
I'm glad my doctor isn't omniscient... she might not approve! :)
GooMan
Aug 29, 11:48 AM
I could not care any less.
Although, I do know of one thing Apple does that hurts the environment. They make me drive 3 hours to get to the closest Apple Store and 3 hours to get back home plus sitting in all the traffic in Atlanta. However, I drive a Nissan Armada (of course it has a V8) so I'm not too worried about gas consumption. ;)
Although, I do know of one thing Apple does that hurts the environment. They make me drive 3 hours to get to the closest Apple Store and 3 hours to get back home plus sitting in all the traffic in Atlanta. However, I drive a Nissan Armada (of course it has a V8) so I'm not too worried about gas consumption. ;)
WiiDSmoker
Apr 20, 08:58 PM
Nope, doesn't work that way for many viruses. Even if you have show hidden files and folders and show hidden system files check to show they still don't necessarily show thats the problem, its either a bug in the OS or something legit that people are exploiting. You can't even get them in command prompt but you can see them when plugged into other OS's. They are usually in a folder along with a script that does something to keep them hidden, or something somewhere else keeps them hidden.
I honestly have no idea how you have the job that you do, because you fail tremendously in this aspect.
I honestly have no idea how you have the job that you do, because you fail tremendously in this aspect.
1tigerlivejob
May 8, 01:12 AM
there pretty reliable I had them for 5 years now
powerbook911
Sep 12, 04:14 PM
I'll be buying this. No question. :)
NebulaClash
Apr 28, 11:45 AM
Yes, I strongly disagree that students need to learn Windows in order to thrive in the workplace. Nowadays work is being done in browsers more than anywhere else, and that trend will continue inexorably as we move to the cloud future. Kids need to learn how to use a computer. Which one is not that important any more. Times have changed.
And on the topic of laughing at OS X market share, keep on laughing. Apple is the most profitable computer company on the planet. Dell and Microsoft wish they had Apple's problems.
And on the topic of laughing at OS X market share, keep on laughing. Apple is the most profitable computer company on the planet. Dell and Microsoft wish they had Apple's problems.
Ino
Sep 20, 01:57 AM
It sounds like it will not have HDMI or TiVo features, and it will play movies out of iTunes, which screams to me that it will only play .mp4 and .m4v files much like my 5G iPod.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4561/picture1jq2.png
But it sure looks better than it sounds...;)
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4561/picture1jq2.png
But it sure looks better than it sounds...;)
Aduntu
Apr 23, 02:44 PM
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day
That phrasing occurs throughout the creation chapter in Genesis. It looks more than slightly unambiguous WRT the meaning of "day".
Genesis 1:5: "And god began calling the light day, but the darkness he called night." In that same verse, "there came to be evening, and there came be morning, a first day." In this single verse alone, "day" is used to define two different lengths of time. You can't conclude by the use of the word "day" in Genesis 1 that those days were strictly 24-hour periods.
That phrasing occurs throughout the creation chapter in Genesis. It looks more than slightly unambiguous WRT the meaning of "day".
Genesis 1:5: "And god began calling the light day, but the darkness he called night." In that same verse, "there came to be evening, and there came be morning, a first day." In this single verse alone, "day" is used to define two different lengths of time. You can't conclude by the use of the word "day" in Genesis 1 that those days were strictly 24-hour periods.
ddtlm
Oct 12, 03:30 PM
Wow I missed a lot by spending all of Friday away from this board. I am way behind in posts here, and I'm sure I'll miss a lot of things worth comment. But anyway, the code fragment:
int x1,x2,x3;
for (x1=1; x1<=20000; x1++) {
for(x2=1; x2<=20000; x2++) {
x3 = x1*x2;
}
}
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
Anyway, lets pretend that for whatever reason compilers did not simplify that loop AT ALL. Note that this would be a stupid stupid compiler. At each stage, x1 is something, we ++x2, and we set x3 = x1 * x2. Now notice that we cannot set x3 until the result of X2++ is known. On a pipelined processor that cannot execute instructions out of order, this means that I have a big "bubble" in the pipeline as I wait for the new x2 before I can multiply. However, after the x3 is started into the pipe, the next instruction is just another x2++ which does not depend on x3, so I can do it immediately. On a 7-stage in-order chip like a G4, this means that I fill two stages of the pipe and then have to wait for the results on the other end before I can continue. You see that this is very inefficient (28% or so). However, the G3 is a 4-stage design and so 2/4 of the stages can stay busy, resulting in a 50% efficientcy (so a 700mhz G3 is "the same as" a 350mhz G3 at 100% and a 800mhz G4 is "the same as" a 210mhz G4 at 100%). These are of course simplified cases, the actual result may very a bit for some obscure reason.
Actually the above stuff is inaccurate. The G3 sports 2 integer units AFAIK, so it can do x3 = x1*x2 at the same time as it is doing x2++ (for the next loop of course, not this one). This means that both pipes start one bit of work, then wait for it to get out the other end, then do one bit of work again. So this is 25% efficientcy. A hypothetical single-pipe G3 would do x3 = x1*x3 and then do x2++, however it could not do x3 = x1 * x2 again until the x2++ was out the other end, which takes 4 cycles and started one after the previos x3 = x1*x2, which should mean 3 "bubble" stages and an efficientcy of 20%.
Actually, it may be worse than that. Remember that this is in a loop. The loop means a compare instruction (are we done yet?) followed by a jump depending on the results of the compare. We therefore have 4 instructions in PPC I think per loop, and we can't compare x2 to 20000 until x2++ has gone through all the pipe stages. (Oh no!) And we can't jump until we know r]the result of the compare (oh no!). Seeing the pattern? Wanna guess what the efficientcy is for a really stupid compiled version of this "benchmark"? A: really freaking low.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
int x1,x2,x3;
for (x1=1; x1<=20000; x1++) {
for(x2=1; x2<=20000; x2++) {
x3 = x1*x2;
}
}
Is a very poor benchmark. Compilers may be able to really dig into that and make the resulting executable perform the calculate radically different. In fact, I can tell you the answer outright: x1=20000, x2=20000, x3 = 400000000. It took me 2 seconds or so. Does this mean that I am a better computer than a G4 and a P4? No, it means I realized that the loop can be reduced to simple data assignments. I have a better compiler, thats it.
Anyway, lets pretend that for whatever reason compilers did not simplify that loop AT ALL. Note that this would be a stupid stupid compiler. At each stage, x1 is something, we ++x2, and we set x3 = x1 * x2. Now notice that we cannot set x3 until the result of X2++ is known. On a pipelined processor that cannot execute instructions out of order, this means that I have a big "bubble" in the pipeline as I wait for the new x2 before I can multiply. However, after the x3 is started into the pipe, the next instruction is just another x2++ which does not depend on x3, so I can do it immediately. On a 7-stage in-order chip like a G4, this means that I fill two stages of the pipe and then have to wait for the results on the other end before I can continue. You see that this is very inefficient (28% or so). However, the G3 is a 4-stage design and so 2/4 of the stages can stay busy, resulting in a 50% efficientcy (so a 700mhz G3 is "the same as" a 350mhz G3 at 100% and a 800mhz G4 is "the same as" a 210mhz G4 at 100%). These are of course simplified cases, the actual result may very a bit for some obscure reason.
Actually the above stuff is inaccurate. The G3 sports 2 integer units AFAIK, so it can do x3 = x1*x2 at the same time as it is doing x2++ (for the next loop of course, not this one). This means that both pipes start one bit of work, then wait for it to get out the other end, then do one bit of work again. So this is 25% efficientcy. A hypothetical single-pipe G3 would do x3 = x1*x3 and then do x2++, however it could not do x3 = x1 * x2 again until the x2++ was out the other end, which takes 4 cycles and started one after the previos x3 = x1*x2, which should mean 3 "bubble" stages and an efficientcy of 20%.
Actually, it may be worse than that. Remember that this is in a loop. The loop means a compare instruction (are we done yet?) followed by a jump depending on the results of the compare. We therefore have 4 instructions in PPC I think per loop, and we can't compare x2 to 20000 until x2++ has gone through all the pipe stages. (Oh no!) And we can't jump until we know r]the result of the compare (oh no!). Seeing the pattern? Wanna guess what the efficientcy is for a really stupid compiled version of this "benchmark"? A: really freaking low.
I'll see about adding more thoughts later.
Demoman
Jul 13, 12:59 AM
Please don't confuse SMP with multi-socket. You must have an SMP (or even an ASMP) operating system to use any computer with more than one core.
It doesn't matter if the two cores are in one socket or two - both require SMP in order to manage the cores.
Saying that a dual-socket system is "SMP" and a single-socket dual-core system is "not SMP" shows that you don't quite understand the computer technology required to do multi-processing.
I know what Symetrical Multi-Processing is. Thanks.
It doesn't matter if the two cores are in one socket or two - both require SMP in order to manage the cores.
Saying that a dual-socket system is "SMP" and a single-socket dual-core system is "not SMP" shows that you don't quite understand the computer technology required to do multi-processing.
I know what Symetrical Multi-Processing is. Thanks.
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